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RNB007
New Member
USA
11 Posts |
 Posted - 07/26/2010 : 7:57:07 PM
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Hey Shawn,
I sent you a PM back. Sometimes I do not think before I type and end up putting out TMI!
Sorry.
Ok have to let mom get on here.
Thank You!
Ryan |
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shawn
Moderator
90 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2010 : 8:27:24 PM
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| Hey buddy, I got your PM and I wrote you back :) |
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kattklaws
Administrator
370 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2010 : 11:25:40 PM
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Ryan,
I know you don;t want too, but let me ask you and please, be honest...........what are your symptoms because if you want off the Valium, you gotta get to a good place, especially with your immune system! I want you to make it, ok??
We are here for love and support and we need you to be a part of us........you can do it, you gotta find it within yourself!
Let me know your symptoms and you can do it in pm if need be
Love, Karen |
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skooter
Senior Member
362 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2010 : 12:34:31 AM
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Hey Ryan,
was just reading somemore, and guess I'll come out with it. I feel like a drug addict, although I've never been one. I have been taking oxy for 2 or 3 months. 2 to 3 pills a day. My protracted w/d's are so bad I just haven't been able to take it. And I have such a huge guilt hanging over me when I post, and others are not taking anything else. It's awful, but yes if you can donnot touch anything else. And as everyone has said before, and I said in my first post to you, I too think you should not take the chances of this awful post tramatic withdrawal possibility if you don't start on a high enough dose. If you're only taking half of what you are on, you might be ok. Me, I only reintstated on less than a quarter of my original dose, and have been in protracted withdrawal every since I went a whole 5 weeks without touching anything after xmas of '08. It's been horrific, and I wouldn't want anyone else to feel what I'm going thru. So if you aren't feeling better by the w/e, before it's to late, I would up the dose. Hopefully you'll level out, but just don't let it go past 2 weeks. My biggest mistake. Plus I was cutting out pills at first, and then pieces over months and sigh, it's just not good.
You will be ok, and am glad you found THIS site so you can do this properly!
God Bless you |
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RNB007
New Member
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2010 : 5:48:10 PM
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Hey my new dearest friends,
Just got home been off ALL day with mom running errands. I am rattled and trying to calm myself. I will PM you back later Shawn (Thank you so much BTW). I have to put some new lights in moms fish tank and she wants me to do some cleaning with her and wash the dogs. I feel like I just want out of my skin. I have had 15mgs Vals so far I got up at 11am. I must admit I am having a drink. I do think I must go up. It was insane going places and interacting with people. It all felt so unreal. I was craving something, I think (I know)opiates. Just wanted to jump on and let you know how much I appreciate the help. Mom just thinks I am fine and can do all this when I just want hide, or worse. Once I make it through this day god willing I will w/b and PM you back Shawn. God bless you all. Getting on here and posting is all I can think about, people that understand. OK let me go get done what must be done. Much love to you all.
Ryan |
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kattklaws
Administrator
370 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2010 : 8:39:26 PM
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Ryan,
It is really important not to drink when you are recovering from opiate wd. Alcohol, opiates, and benzos all act on the same receptor and it just can't recover correctly if you constantly use substances.
I think your best bet is to put down the alcohol,stay away from the opiates and reinstate your valium to your original dose. Once stable you can start to come off.........do you think you can do that??
My prayers are with you friend!
Love, Karen |
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RNB007
New Member
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2010 : 9:56:22 PM
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I am so depressed, I am moving back up to 30mg Val. I am losing it I feel. I have so many vices. Trying to stop them all at once I feel so unstable. I am starting to hate myself for bothering y'all. Beer, opiates, Vals. I am a wreck. I have not drank sine June. Stopped methadone July 2nd, reinstated Valium the 11,12th. I can not stay at 15mg or 20mg. I feel so out of control. I feel I cant put you all through this it is not fair to you all. You are all doing so well and I am fighting so many demons at once I am ashamed to say. I am gay, I lost my BF of 3 years in 2003 from an oxy/xanax alcohol O/d due to him being HIV+. All the things I have blocked out over the years with opiates, liquor, weed, etc and the last 4 years Vals on top. Everything is hitting me. I am so sensitive, I feel as I can not take it. The guilt I feel is unbearable. I cried to mom for an hour she said if she has to take a loan out on the house she will. I have numbed myself for so long with drugs and coming off its all hitting me at once and its just too much. I feel so worthless. So weak and so annoying to you all. I have told everything to y'all now. I am so very sorry for putting you all through this. If it is too much please tell me. I do not want to hinder your recovery. Y'all have been SO good to me I could never repay you all.
I just want to be normal. I want to be healthy and happy but it seems like a goal that is unattainable. Please tell me if I am far toO gone for you all to help me. I do not wish to bring you down. I feel like that is what I am doing. I am going to try and mellow out.
I thank you alL so very much. I just have a feeling I am too much for you all to handle. I wish you all the best and even though I do not know you y'all have helped me more than you ever will know. MUCH LOVE TO YOU ALL and no matter what you feel after this message I want y'all to know how much hope and sanity you have gave me. I just want to be clean and as happy as I can be. XOXO Ryan |
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kattklaws
Administrator
370 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2010 : 10:38:28 PM
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Ryan,
There is nobody here who is here to pass judgement! We are here for love and support and if you took a look at the skeletons in most of our closets, you would run away screaming!
Know that we love you and want you to succeed and there is NOTHING you can't overcome, ok? Even hard as it may be......
I am so deeply sorry for your loss, I know you have alot of pain, but you can learn to cope and not cover!
You are NOT too much for us, ok?
I too had a huge amount of things to get off of..heavy opiates, Soma ( powerful narcotic/benzo) muscle relaxer and Xanax. I ended up being ct off of all of it, then some benzi naive dr reinstated me on 8mgs of Klonopin, which is an insane dose. Am I well, no, but am I getting off all this, yes! I now have 1 year and 5 months and 3 weeks off of the opiates, the soma and the xanax........now working on the Klonopin. YOU CAN DO THIS!
(((Ryan))) much love and prayers to you |
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shawn
Moderator
90 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 08:46:20 AM
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Ryan, PLEASE do not give up. We are NOT giving up on you! you were wonderfuly honest in our PM'S. thats all you have to do is be honest with yourself. That little voice telling you it's all too much right now is YOUR ADDICTION talking. Do NOT listen to it!! It wants you to suffer, it wants you to keep feeding it. Well Ryan you dont have to live like that!! you have to FIGHT to get your life back!
I along with everyone here wants to see you get it back. you CAN!! It is sooo worth being free from all these chemicals, but it's hard. I know man..It's VERY hard. But we can take little small steps. Every step no matter how small, is a step forward! So what do ya say bro? stick in this with us? Just give it a shot..
-Shawn |
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Edited by - shawn on 07/28/2010 12:51:50 PM |
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Jean
New Member
20 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 12:38:23 PM
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Ryan, I've just read your post and PLEASE don't think you are a bother to anyone here! We are all in the same boat-trying to get off something-maybe some have more to get off, but we are all here for the same reason. Every little victory, no matter how small, is still a victory. I do have to agree with Karen, drinking is not good. I've tried it a few times while withdrawing and it is so not worth it. Please continue to post-we are all behind you 101 % !!
Jean |
1 mg. Klonopin. Gradually updosed over last 12 years. Originally taken for panic attacks. |
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skooter
Senior Member
362 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2010 : 02:06:21 AM
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Hi Ryan,
Shawn is right, it is the drugs puting these thoughts in your head. Please listen to everyone and don't feel like you're to much for a board that is here to help as we're all in the same boat with the evil toxins taking our whole lives away. I am so sorry for your loss, and also feel you are now just feeling it all. The drugs numb us, so we don't feel things the way we're sposed to. This is why they want us to all be on there stupid pills. They want us braindead.........but that's another story.
Just don't think you're being judged by anyone on this board. That's not the way help forums work, just as nobody at AA would judge. As Karen said, we all have our own skeletons in the closet, so don't you be worrying about anything like that anymore, ok? All there is is love and compassion here, understanding and hope. Those before us got thru this, and so will we. And that word we all hate but is true, TIME, it will take time. All we can do is move forward, one day at a time, doing our tiny cuts, until we are finished, and finish we WILL.
God Bless Ryan, with many healing angels to help you thru this. Hugsssssssssss.
Cheryl |
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kattklaws
Administrator
370 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2010 : 2:53:19 PM
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Ryan, please post if you can, I am worried about you.........stay in touch and my prayers are with you.
Love, Karen |
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RNB007
New Member
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2010 : 01:29:52 AM
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Hey my angels,
Just a quick post till tomorrow. Been a bad few days but looking up. I went to a Dr. thanks to mom putting out some cash. I went up to 30 mg Valium a day now. The Dr (just a GP in town)prescribed...surprise...Prozac 20 mg and a drug called Keppra 500 mg but not benzo friendly at all yet I heard he was. He tried to give me Lyrica which has no generic and me and mom are still confused as his reasoning to that. I do not know if I am going to go back to this guy he was well, not very friendly or informed IMO. Mom went back with me because I was nervous and she was not impressed. Doctor visit was $85. I got the prescription for the Keppra filled but have generic Prozac here so no need to spend money on it.(Have not started the Prozac don't know yet if I am.) Debating that. I did read that some people that have been on methadone awhile go on an SSRI for a few months afterward. I have never had much success with them but maybe after the methadone I might and just see but just short term.
I found a Dr. online in town that does benzo tapering from a list online that is around and has good reviews. No clue how much $$ but going to find out and how he works. Mom is taking a little money out of what is left of her savings to pay property taxes so she is going to take some extra out for me. I will check my PM and w/b tomorrow where I can talk a little more about a few things.
I guess the Keppra is an anticonvulsant with off label use in treating emotional symptoms of benzo withdrawal (so he claims) and a mood stabilizer. Thank you all for the posts. Sorry if I gave you a scare. Drinking = NO GOOD! Have been opiate free still except for the "Toe Day" as I call it lol. July 2nd was first day off methadone so 30 days almost here. Doctors and the pharmaceutical company's and my bad choices have put my brain chemistry in such a mess, one minute fine - next minute "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" moment. Things have to get better. I have a good feeling things are going to get better.
I know I have said this a million times but I can never thank y'all enough. YOU ALL ARE JUST AWESOME!
I hope everyone is doing great. Once I can get it together enough mom said she will go to meetings with me if I want and we had a long talk about other things as well. I think it would do us both a lot of good. Well my dears, sending so much love and good vibes to you all and will get to my PM's tomorrow sometime and I hope everyone wakes up feeling great and has a wonderful Saturday.
SO MUCH LOVE and HUGS to you ALL!
Ryan |
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Jana
Administrator
1547 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2010 : 06:11:12 AM
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Hi Ryan,
I am not often here, but I want to respond a bit to your confusion. When discontinuing multiple drugs, "one-at-a-time" is usually the rule. This is partly because often one drug alters the metabolism(clearance) of another.
Usually we are talking about a non-benzo increasing the clearance of a benzo via a CYP 450 enzyme. This is valid for your case, but you have multiple drugs including psychoactive drugs in the mix. I know benzos inside and out, but I can't say that I know the other drugs that well. So although I know that when discontinuing psyche drugs, the benzo comes first, I admit that I don't know about meth, et cetera.
Many antiseizure drugs are used in benzo withdrawal. When employing the common methods that call for far too-large individual reductions, antizeizure meds are prescribed to avoid grand mal seizures. Some of these seizure meds actually increase the risk of seizure by inducing the benzo metabolizing enzymes. I was prescribed one of these.
I believe that intentionally risking these seizures by ordering too large benzo reductions and then covering the mistake with anti-seizure meds is seriously misguided. I do have personal experience with medically-caused benzo seizures although not of the grand mal type. This was horrible beyond description. It was like being abducted by aliens so to speak and quite painful. When I took charge of my own plan and used very tiny daily reductions, all seizure activity stopped. Of course you may need the anti-seizure drug for a condition that I don't know that you have. However I found that managing the withdrawal in a wiser manner was preferable to doing the Vietnam method and using drugs to cover it.
Another problem is that when symptoms are masked by any extra drug, it is not possible to know when you have exceeded your body's own withdrawal limits. Then, even though the schedule has been finished, your body hasn't. Serious post withdrawal condition can follow that.
Now Lyrica, according to many sources, is the only drug that will actually work to up-regulate your GABA system. That sounds great, but the drug comes with risks. I can't suggest an antiseizure drug anyway.
Now this is important, and most MD's seem unaware of it. Many antidepressants are actually substances that will induce the CYP enzymes that clear the benzo from the body. Their use will cause a drop in benzo blood levels. This drop will escalate benzo withdrawal symptoms. You need to understand what you agree to take.
To complicate all of this, serotonin-increasing A/D's have been shown to aid GABA production. A doc rarely is willing to do the research of literature to sort this out. You have to do it.
Often it is from kindness that a doc will prescribe and antidepressant. That doc may not understand the downsides of that A/D.
Your case deserves a lot of thought and planning because benzo withdrawal is a big physical stressor. You don't want to burden your body with any un-necessarily harsh withdrawal when you are also dealing with HIV. So your HIV-doc should be informed of all of your proposed drugs.
Now you may be distressed about your need to increase your benzo to 30.0mgs. However, using the amount that best covers your withdrawal symptoms is the first step. If you are using too little and then taper that, well that will fail. Scooter shared her sad experience with this. I, too, went through it as ordered by a doctor. We see the nasty results everywhere. You are wise to go to a dose that will cover symptoms even if it does not cover every aspect of a former bad withdrawal. Take the benzo in even doses spaced at equal intervals. This will foil interdose withdrawal symptoms.
Don't wait for weeks to start your slow and even descent in dosage. The 30.0mgs will not cover you forever. Also, using the right reduction for you will begin to ease symptoms rather than worsening them. I know that it's hard to believe, but look at the archives. Our people don't suffer from cutting. Even the worst cases improve.
Fear and emotional turmoil do increase symptoms. Share your concerns here. A shared burden is lighter.
Jana |
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kattklaws
Administrator
370 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2010 : 8:43:42 PM
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Jana whaat a WONDERFUL post............and dear Ryan, I was so worried about you since you hadn't posted, you mustn't do that !! :)
I am so glad your mom is supportive of you, bless her heart and give her a big hug from me, because she is a rarity!!!!! What a Godsend.
Like Jana said, Lyrica is used to cover up benzo symptoms but then there is withdrawal to deal with from the Lyrica and I for one don't want to have to wd from anything else when teh benzo isse is done!
Let me tell you about the SSRI thinking...............dr's expect you to have depression after opiate wd. I had soooo smany dr's tell me I couldn't get through the depression. But, you know what, it isn't so bad, it is more like apathy, where you just don't wanna do anything because your body is used to doing everything high which gives you that opiate boost of energy. However, I got through it with NO ssri's.......and they told me I couldn't.......so if you can hold on, you are almost 30 days out ( congrats), I don't think you need the prozac, the depression/apathy, would have long hit you by now......
Oh, so much love and pride to ya
Love, Karen |
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